关于TMB115/805 APO镜头
TMB镜头我已经关注很久了，为此年初购买了127/820折射镜，打算用127/820折射镜筒加TMB130/780或115/805镜头作为下一步升级目标。根据近期考察,TMB130/780重量达4.5KG,镜筒直径要大于150mm,且价格已涨到27xxx,加上镜筒已经不能算便携镜且超出预算了（我的便携标准是三脚架、镜筒、铝合金箱一只手能拎动），因此目标锁定在TMB115/805上，它的参数如下：TMB115/805mm lens in cell,weight:2,1kg,镜头座底座尺寸133/148mm, 接口处有124 mm 直径螺纹。从焦距和尺寸上与127/820镜筒直径（内径123/外径130）很匹配。F7的焦比适中，加巴洛镜可拍行星，加减焦/平场镜可用于深空摄影。镜头与AP同属顶级APO,镜头座为快速热平衡材料，据称TMB130/780已超过TAK的同级镜子的水平。在下面贴的外国同好的评测中称用115/805能看到恩克缝！在YAHOO TMB group可与该作者交流。REDUCER/FLATNER可选择TELEVUE 0.8X for tv102(3007),合成焦比为F5.6可适用多数深空天体。有兴趣的同好可交流一下看法。
外国同好的评测
2003-12-27; 2200hrs EST, +/- a couple of hours:Debbie and I put on our arctic gear and took the TMB 115 CNC and it's
TMB Monocentrics for a spin tonight. The 16 mm Naglers got to come
along too. And I think the Baader/AP Mark V binoviewer is welded to
the AP Maxbright diagonal, which in turn is welded to the 115
(i.e., two eyes only for us).
LOCATION:
A bit east of Atlanta, Georgia U.S.A.
CONDITIONS:
COLD for here in Georgia (35?F).
Just a breath of a westerly breeze drifting through.
Hunidity 45%.
Streetlight 50 feet away; cars coming and going; neighbors love those
house flood lights, not to mention their decorations.
Seeing; for a change, was very good (faint difraction ring slowly
blinking). YES!
Transparency; not perfect, but very good. Double YES!
EQUIPMENT:
TMB 115 f/7, fl 821.7 mm.
Bino's compensator = 1.7x.
Losmandy GM-8 w/GEMINI goto.
TV Nagler 16 mm (2).
TMB Monocentric pairs 4,5,6,8,10 mm.
LINEAR (C/2002 T7):
GOT IT with the 16s (87x). Up near zenith. I thought it very faint
for a mag 8.4, but then 87x may have been a bit much - could not see
it with 14x (40 mm) binoculars. It almost made a straight line with
TYC1754-1745-1 and TYC1754-2316-1. It had a small white nucleus with
a larger, vary faint fuzz ball that was slightly oblong. No sign of a
tail.
ORION: M42 (the cape) & M43 (the helmet):
Framed beautifully in the 16s; wonderfully satisfying image ...
MOON: ... as was the Moon and the Earth shine on it's dark part. That
devil fish, Manta Ray, was still lying the the mud (Mare Crisium with
Picard and Peirce as the eyes sticking up out of the sea's muddy floor
:-) Hum, guess it's a flounder that lies in the mud with it's two
eyes sticking out - but I think devil fish is more dramatic, like the
view.
TRAPEZIUM in M42:
I saw A-E, and Debbie saw A-F (I checked positions later - we got them
right; they're between a mag 10.3 and 11 - I've seen both stated).
The 4 main stars were nice round, white balls with a hint of
difraction ring slowly flickering. E&F were faint, small dots. We
started with the TMB 4s, but had to back off to the 5s to see E&F. We
then used the 6, 8, & 10 TMB Monos to back off in steps and just enjoy
the crisp view and structure of the nebula. LOVE the TMB Mono's
contrast!
SATURN:
Went straight to the TMB Mono 4s; WOW - just glorious at 349x!!! The
planet was not moving around; just faint detail would slowly wobble or
come and go. We could see the crape (C) ring all the way around. It
was NOT coming and going - but constantly there - first time I've been
able to see it so clearly in front of the globe. There was a lot of
gray/brown shading against the inner half of the white (B) ring; made
for a nice contrast of color - almost like some of the light
butterscottch/gray brownish upper half of the globe was reflecting
onto the inner half of the white ring, both sides. The outer ring (A)
we always see as a beatiful and pleasing medium light gray. Tonight
we both could see a very thin, faint black line out near the outer
third (Deb) or quarter (me) of the gray ring. I know Encke's Division
(who's???) is in that area, but I thougt it was a little closer to the
edge. Still, Debbie and I are convinced we see something - and we
could see it on both sides. It would come and go due to the seeing,
but it was more there than not. It was a thin black line, not a wider
dark/medium gray line. The globe was just beautiful with more depth
of color and subtle shading than we have ever seen, from the polar
area to the central band(s) to the lower half's edges - WHAT A TREAT!
CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE:
Uncle Al's 16 T5 Naglers frame a lot of objects stunningly in our
telescope system.
Thomas, Markus, and the folks who made them - thanks for a superb
combination of glass: TMB 115 & TMB Monocentrics YES! :-)
Clevis & Debbie Jones
TMB 115, #015
TMB115f7拍的片子
土星 好东西，这也是我下一步的目标。刚才还有人提议要团购这个镜头呢。 这有不少Adrian Catterall用tmb115F7拍的片子，我发EMAIL问过他，他用的是AP的0.75reducer,2.7"的减焦镜。http://www.observatory.demon.co.uk/ 这个lens cell 多少银子？ To 小蔡:
TMB115/805lens in cell大约￥16xxx，viexn LW镜筒HK$32xxx,CNC镜筒HK$36xxx 多谢，如果用127S改装，大概可以省下多少银子？ 另外115的镜子都能有这个效果，那么TEC 140 估计更加爽了。
按照USA的售价，40K能拿下TEC 140岂不是更加核算？ TMB的镜片材料很怪，用的不是FPL53，是俄罗斯的一种，我记不清楚是不是OK7玻璃。个人觉得TMB最有名的是它的老款100F8，原来自己非常想买100F8，在YAHOO的TMB GROUP上和设计师TOMS BACK还聊过，后来因为102F8换了生产厂怕质量达不到原来的100F8水平，所以就放弃了。
另外不建议买镜头然后自己改装，好的镜筒也有它的价值的。 〉〉另外不建议买镜头然后自己改装，好的镜筒也有它的价值的。
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这个观点我同意，好镜子还要好筒子来配，否则太难过了。 To 小蔡：
与viexnLW镜筒比，改装的话可节约￥14xxx左右吧，不过效果可能没LW或CNC镜筒完美，主要是内部光栏数、消光材料、镜筒质量的差别，我想观测效果不会象money一样相差50%的吧。
To Jacky:
这是toms back在他APO定义文中提到的AP及TMB所用材料。
Roland Christen (Astro-Physics) uses a very high quality super ED glass (FPL-53) and specially matched crowns to control the various aberrations (he also slightly aspherizes the outer surfaces). TMB Optical uses Russian OK-4 super ED glass (similar to FPL-53) with an outer crown and a special dense crown glass, using air spacing with different internal radii, and hand figuring to control these aberrations.
from http://www.tmboptical.com/itemsGrid.asp?cat_id=32 FPL-53在照相镜头中被广泛采用，那个TEC 140也是采用这种玻璃的，OEM厂家是日本的光学名厂Tarmon(腾龙)。
我感觉当初TMB在俄国生产也是为了控制成本，但似乎现在TMB的成本控制远远不如TEC。 对了，现在TMB的LW镜桶不是VIXEN的了，遮光罩可伸缩。 FPL53玻璃是CANON的下属公司生产的。 再转帖一篇TMB4"的评测,里面有 VS FS102的内容:
1) TMB Fluorostar 4" f/8 APO (4" f/8 triplet refractor, 7X50 finder, $2300-$2800)
From Thomas Back comes a fine new line of apochromatic refractors.
I saw Back's 6" version of this scope at Astrofest this year (1999) and
was dutifully impressed. Along with Roland Christen's expensive glass
in the adjoining booth, these were among the most popular items at the
show on both nights. I received the 4" version as a review sample,
and couldn't wait to put it through its paces.
Another great 4" refractor -- the TMB Fluorostar
The mount is the GM-8
These scopes carry optics from Russia, while the optical tube assemblies
are sourced from Taiwan. The optics are designed by Thomas Back and
made in Russia by a Zeiss subcontractor. Back does final bench testing
and star testing on each lens here in the US. If they don't meet his stan-
dards, he sends them back. The Taiwanese connection tends to raise some
eyebrows, but you shouldn't worry. The machining and finish work are first-
rate. The focuser is massive, and carries huge focusing knobs, which look
just like the AP focusers, only larger. A chrome bat-wing handle serves as
the focus lock. The scope comes with a 70 mm extension tube that you can
remove to accomodate a binoviewer without a barlow, if binoviewers are your
thing.
The entire tube is finished in a nice metallic pearl-white, with tasteful
gold (yes, real gold) accents. The scope is huge for a 4". If you told
someone it was a 5" refractor, they would probably believe you. The mech-
anical tolerances are very tight. When you extend the dew shield or focus
your eyepiece, a whoosh sound escapes from the tube. The tube is very
heavy, but will work on a GM-8 with only one 7-lb counterweight. For those
looking to save money, the same optics are available in a Vixen-based
mechanical assembly. If you buy this scope, however, you want the
nicer mechanical assembly. Believe me. You just do.
According to Back, these new scopes are true apochromats which are "highly
corrected for chromatic and spherical aberration..." I tend to agree. Two
of us present could not detect any errors in a star test on Vega at 164X.
Detail on the massive focuser
The optics use SD (super low dispersion) glass as the center element, with
two matching hard crown elements as the outer elements. All surfaces are
multi-coated. Light throughput is said to be 96%. Another innovation is
the use of a temperature compensated cell, which is said to maintain precise
collimation and reduce stresses on the lens elements on the objective during
large temperature swings.
We compared this telescope to a Takahashi FS102, which has the same
aperture and focal length. We also had several duplicate sets of eyepieces
on hand, so side-by-side comparisons were easy.
The first thing you notice is that the Fluorostar is impressively well-
corrected for chromatic aberration. I could see no false color at all,
no matter how high I pushed the magnification. I never thought I would
say this, but in comparison, the FS102 almost looks like a semi-apo-
chromat. Really.
About the only detriment I could find on the Fluorostar is a slight contrast
loss when looking at bright objects. The sky is not quite as dark as in
the Takahashi. Mind you, the effect is mild. According to Back, this is
an inevitable result of having an air-spaced triplet. You win on color
correction but you lose a little on contrast. It all depends on your
priorities. I'll take the superior color correction any day, but the slight
loss in sky blackness caused one observer present to say that he pre-
ferred the Takahashi by a small margin. I also noticed that there are only
three baffles in the Fluorostar, while the Takahashi has eight. (According
to Thomas, he is investigating adding another baffle of some sort, probably
near the eyepiece end.)
Other than that, there isn't much to talk about. The Fluorostar is a
world-class refractor, right up there with the AP, Takahashi, and
TeleVue apochromats. We split some doubles and looked at the
popular early-fall deep sky objects. Both scopes did wonderfully well.
Later in the evening, both the Fluorostar and the FS102 were delivering
stunning images of Jupiter. Again, we noticed the Fluorostar had better
color correction, while the Tak had a blacker background.
While it's hard to predict the future, Thomas Back appears off to an
auspicious start. The Fluorostar feels more like a mature product from a
company that's been around the block a few times than a first effort from
a new company. The scopes are currently available through APM in Europe
or from Thomas himself.
Recommended for discriminating refractor lovers.
Update, 3/26/00: Newer versions of these TMB telescopes are said to
have superior baffling inside the tube, and improved multicoatings. Owners
tell me that these new TMBs have superb contrast. One reader, who also
owns an FS102, says the TMB actually beats the Tak on contrast. While I
have not verified this for myself, if this is true, then these newer TMB tele-
scopes could be really special. 上面的评测我原来看过，结论是TMB的色差控制比FS102好，但FS102的背景更黑，锐度更高。后面又有用户说TMB改进型的锐度也高了。
从光学设计的角度出发，TMB的100F8要比TMB的115F7色差控制要好，一个是F8一个是F7，另外相同焦比口径越小色差越好，所以我原来非常想买TMB的100F8，但它现在换成102F8了。 我个人感觉到了TMB这个级别上（3片APO），所谓大F值的色差纠正比小F值的好，在实际观测中完全可以忽略掉。 大F值的调焦容易些。
刚和APM的老板Makus咨询过，现在的TMB APO镜产品中，102/800， 105/650 和115/805 规格的都采用同样的LW镜筒，也是出于省钱的考虑。所以要买4寸TMB APO镜，115/805 的把镜筒利用得比较充分。 最初由 小蔡 发表
FPL-53在照相镜头中被广泛采用，那个TEC 140也是采用这种玻璃的，OEM厂家是日本的光学名厂Tarmon(腾龙)。
我感觉当初TMB在俄国生产也是为了控制成本，但似乎现在TMB的成本控制远远不如TEC。
TEC用的是浸油结构三片物镜，4个内表面不需高精度Figuring和多层增透镀膜，所以在口径和选材同样的情况下成本会低一些。据说浸油的物镜如果色差控制顶级的话，慧差就要大一些，两者互相牵制。因为镜组之间间隙很小，油层基本是靠毛细作用保持的，会大大降低灰尘和潮气侵入镜组内部的机会，现代的浸油镜头，根本无需担心油层泄漏和浑浊的问题。不知景德的FLT110放弃原来TMB105/650 的物镜而改用TEC 110 的油头是否也出于类似的考虑呢？
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