不好意思，在此说明一下：在本人发表此帖的时候并未注意到英田方面已先发帖了。
我们没有别的意思，主要是想把某些事情搞清楚而已，不能随随便便的就对某项产品评头评足的。因为从英田的解释（节选）“......只是有一点很奇怪 ... 连镜子的新旧程度和是否使用过都看不出来，还振振有词地把这样的一支镜子拿出来搞测评，还真的不能不让人产生一些怀疑......
大家都是在猜測，這樣毫無意義，要么廠家正式發函要求說明取樣渠道，要么接受評測事實。 原帖由 成都巽风 于 2007-10-11 00:36 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
LS这位兄弟又没有看清帖子吧！英田作出的说明，这款镜子仅仅是发给经销商寻求意见，并没有在市面上流通的。就像Intel的CPU一样，在公开发售之前，都会有工程版CPU的发给各个厂商进行测试，但是对于这类CPU一般情况是不回收的（回 ...
沒有銷售過那到不會產生什么大問題，可能是商家委托進行的內部評測被公布了，其中的操作應該有失誤，至于發現問題后的處理，那就各種各樣了，顯卡電容爆漿、低溫花屏等事件始發時顯卡廠家也都出面進行了必要的處理，也沒有你說的那么可怕。 原帖由 一条龙 于 2007-10-11 00:55 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
沒有銷售過那到不會產生什么大問題，可能是商家委托進行的內部評測被公布了，其中的操作應該有失誤，至于發現問題后的處理，那就各種各樣了，顯卡電容爆漿、低溫花屏等事件始發時顯卡廠家也都出面進行了必要的處理，也沒有你說 ...
865主板，后期由于intel自己简化了南桥芯片保护结构，导致了用户频频烧毁南桥，尽管几个一线大厂同意免费维修主板，但是都没有直接说更换良品，更别说回收了…即便是在这种情况下，也没有在包装里特别说明使用USB不当可能导致烧毁南桥的说明……甚至还有品牌更新主板设计，防烧，还是被烧了。显卡一般情况下不可能出现大规模的花屏、除非本来有重大缺陷，作为损坏维修，那是自然的。又如飞利浦107系列显示器，按键漏电导致OSD菜单乱飞，至今飞利浦也不承认是缺陷，但是网上都骂遍了……很多厂商都会把风险转嫁到用户头上，特别是电子类产品。到时候随便给一个说明，把责任推到用户身上就OK了。就像国外召回的数码相机型号，未必在中国会实施同样的政策一样！其实电子类的东西有很多类似的事情，只是没有遇到自己的身上，大多人也不会关心，前段时间创维电视频频发生爆炸、自燃，好像也没有看到召回吧！
所以这次英田能承认是自己的产品，其实在某种程度上来说也不错了～
其实这个帖子有意思的是2005年的样品，拿到2007年进行评测，这个产品评测的渠道不太畅通呀！ 我对光学了解不多，但是对机械有一点点的了解，既然光学对机械有很大的依赖，我不敢想像如果一个两节配合的光学系统能歪到如此程度还能发出去检测，那厂家恐怕连最基本的机械设备都不具备，更不要说光学技术人才了，就算爱好者个人组装，这样的误差恐怕也是不可原谅的，我不想夸大国有人才的技术，就是拿锉刀挫其配合精度也不至于大到如此程度。如非损坏是不可能达到如此误差的！ 原帖由 zzl520 于 2007-10-11 06:55 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
我对光学了解不多，但是对机械有一点点的了解，既然光学对机械有很大的依赖，我不敢想像如果一个两节配合的光学系统能歪到如此程度还能发出去检测，那厂家恐怕连最基本的机械设备都不具备，更不要说光学技术人才了，就算爱好者个 ...
请大家看看在TOM发表评论后，一个得到过我们旧款80的意大利朋友作的澄清。http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Board/article/Number/1851742/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/o/fpart/allPilolli
newbie
Reged: 09/02/07
Posts: 1
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/book.gif Re: CN Report: Protoduction Optics http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/new.gif Mike28]
#1878853 - 10/01/07 06:43 PM http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/edit.gif Edit http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/reply.gif Reply http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/quote.gif Quote http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/reply.gif Quick Reply
Nice story but, believe it or not, I'm here to help the pirate scope!
I got an intane 80ED scope like the one tested by Tom about nine months ago. I tested it for a while and decided that Cina was the right place for those scopes. I'm italian so, pls, bear with me and my poor english.
I do agree with almost all tom's considerations:
1) the "engineer" designing this tube was on his first day at work, probably.
2) the tube simply got the "wrong lenght" since you can reach focus only with 1,1/4" diagonals or his own 2" prism (included into my package). Too long for 2" mirror diagonals, too short for using an eyepiece without extensions.
3) the dewshield was basically a... well... lightshield suitable for dark places... http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
4) the focuser isn't exactly brilliant and you can't change it since is embedded into the tube.
Nevertheless, Tom really surprised me when he didn't realize how to lock the tube properly. His experience was obnubilated by the chinese experience. http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jokes apart, I really have great consideration for Tom's proficiencies, that's why I decided to post this. This scope got so many problems, he doesn't need new ones. http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
After all, I must admit I fell in the same trap as soon as I opened the tube the first time. It was floppy! But I didn't give up. http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The right way to lock the tube is to unscrew the silver gear at the end of the blu tube until it leaves enough room for the terminal part of the black tube to get into the slots provided. Then you need to tighen again the silver gear. (I beg your pardon if this part isn't clear enough. I'm not used writing about mechanics in english).
Once the tube has been locked properly, it becomes really solid. I tried to swing it as a baseball bat (ok, not hitting anything, but that's not the point...) and it gave a feeling of sturdyness to me.
I must say that I wouldn't be surprised if the Tom's sample got a faulted locking mechanism.
Of course, I changed the horrible white "holding ring" with two real holding rings mounted onto a dove tail bar.
Now the pirate scope was ready for a real test. http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Since I had the possibility to test it for quite a long time, I thought to post my impressions. They are not intented to replace Tom's ones but to give just a confrontation ground if Tom would ever decide to give the pirate scope a second chance (that anyway wouldn't reveal any breath taking surprise http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, at least into my opinion).
As Tom said, the color correction is fair. Nevertheless, a violett fring is clearly visible in long exposure photos aroung the brightest (and also around the not so bright) stars. It isn't an horrible amount of color, but it's definitely more present than in the Orion 80ED doublet and need some photoshop work to disappear (or a filter during the shooting).
The field curvature correction is better than in the Orion 80ED doublet. I use this scope as a reference since I think is quite well known. Anyhow, it's still far from the flat field offered by the Pentax 75SHDF or the Vixen 140N (just to make to example of what I think a flat field is).
I'm not able to certify it, since I don't own a ronchi reticule, but I'm almost sure that the optics of the Intane's Pirate Scope suffer from some spherical aberration. I saw no trace of astigmatism and the optics were perfectly centered. The star test was really good on this side.
Just a quick note to say that I didn't need to use the collimation screws on the front cell. Collimation resisted the travel from China to Italy.
So... Why did I decide to introduce myself into the Cloudy Night community criticizing the work of a valid members of its?
Also if I do understand that's not the most pleasant way to introduce myself, I love the work of the CN community and I want to contribute to make it even better. Please, understand that it isn't my meaning to criticize anyone but just to contribute to give the precise infos that CN always give. I'm sure that my post is far from being perfect and I would like to hear from Tom or anyone else who tested the intane to have a second "opinion" to compare to.
I'm closing my (too long) post with some "follow up" from Intane.
Since I complained about the quality of the scope, they kept me updated about their development. This prototype never went into production run. They just started production of another scope, same optics (they said, but I can't be sure) but different ota, very similar to the united ones. Intane Optics aren't distributed in Italy but an Italian reseller (a friend) just asked for a sample of the new scopes (he wanted to give them a second chance also being aware of the first disaster) for evaluation.
I'm not very good at astrophotos, but I got some shots I can post if anyone wants to take a look at field and color correction.
Thanks for the time you guys spent to read my lines.
Post Extras: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/print.gif http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/addreminder.gif http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/notifymod.gif
Tom Trusockhttp://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/adm.gif
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/star.gifhttp://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/star.gifhttp://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/star.gifhttp://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/star.gifhttp://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/star.gif
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Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 20444
Loc: Are we there yet? http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/book.gif Re: CN Report: Protoduction Optics http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/new.gif Pilolli]
#1878911 - 10/01/07 06:58 PM http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/edit.gif Edit http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/reply.gif Reply http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/quote.gif Quote http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/images/reply.gif Quick Reply
Quote:
The right way to lock the tube is to unscrew the silver gear at the end of the blu tube until it leaves enough room for the terminal part of the black tube to get into the slots provided. Then you need to tighen again the silver gear. (I beg your pardon if this part isn't clear enough. I'm not used writing about mechanics in english).
Once the tube has been locked properly, it becomes really solid. I tried to swing it as a baseball bat (ok, not hitting anything, but that's not the point...) and it gave a feeling of sturdyness to me.
I must say that I wouldn't be surprised if the Tom's sample got a faulted locking mechanism.
Thanks, I'll have to take a closer look at that. (No instructions included with this one I'm afraid, I was totally on my own.)
I'm very glad they decided to change the OTA.
And thanks for the "second opinion", it's appreciated!
Tom T.
--------------------
The Out Back Observatory
看来昨天我的猜测，TOM拿到的样品有损毁可能不太正确。很可能是TOM本人没有把我们伸缩式镜筒旋转到位，没有把定位系统固定好导致了镜筒和露罩不在一条轴线上。如果固定好，应该是不存在这个问题的，应该是很牢靠的。因此，TOM后来表示要对我们的旧款样品作重新审视。
此外，我还想呼吁一种“百家争鸣，百花齐放”的宽松论坛氛围。记得小时候读过一篇课文，大意是爱因斯坦小时候做的小凳子被老师批评，他平静地拿出了一些更差的小凳子，告诉老师那些是更早的时候做的，更丑陋。我想，任何一个人、一个产品、一个公司，都有不断学习、发展、进步、积累的过程，我们要宽容一些错误，支持一些努力，这样才会在我们当今社会造就更多的成功创业者，才会有更多的中国自主创新、自主知识产权的产品在世界上为中国争光，谢谢！
[ 本帖最后由 intane 于 2007-10-11 09:47 编辑 ] 原帖由 成都巽风 于 2007-10-11 01:06 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
865主板，后期由于intel自己简化了南桥芯片保护结构，导致了用户频频烧毁南桥，尽管几个一线大厂同意免费维修主板，但是都没有直接说更换良品，更别说回收了…即便是在这种情况下，也没有在包装里特别说明使用USB不当可能导致 ...
雖然你說出了幾種常見的IT產業的問題，但具體之處還需要補充一下，所謂南橋設計導致USB接口損壞主板其實是由于機箱和電源以及接地方式不正確而導致的，并非完全由主板或南橋設計引起，主板廠家能單獨承擔返修已經履行了額外的義務，至于OSD菜單問題也是由于按鍵旁邊的電容失效導致的，更多的則是內部使用的開關電源長期使用后參數變化、電磁泄漏增加而導致的干擾問題，并非你說的按鍵漏電。
現在情況向好的方向轉換，英田甚至可以發函將新產品送測，也算是一次機會。 原帖由 一条龙 于 2007-10-11 10:37 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
雖然你說出了幾種常見的IT產業的問題，但具體之處還需要補充一下，所謂南橋設計導致USB接口損壞主板其實是由于機箱和電源以及接地方式不正確而導致的，并非完全由主板或南橋設計引起，主板廠家能單獨承擔返修已經履行了額外 ...
我所列举的这两例因为是我亲身经历的，所以颇有感触。的确南桥的烧毁跟机箱USB接口没有很好的接地有关，但是在曾在维修部见到主板后部USB口引起的烧毁的主板。Intel作为供货商，在没有预先通知的情况下，进行芯片的修改，也是导致这个事件发生的主要原因之一，这不可否认。其次飞利浦的确存在按键漏电情况跟按键控制电容漏电的情况，但是作为飞利浦公司在发生问题的情况下，没有对用户说明，而几乎都是用平时解OSD方法告知客户。如果是小范围的故障，那是不可避免的，但是大面积出现这个问题，则不得不怀疑当时的用料是否真的是合格品，毕竟很多小杂牌也不太容易出现这种情况，大不了就是OSD无法启动（或者失靈），而不是非人為的OSD乱飞，无法消除。 原帖由 nsmile 于 2007-10-12 18:44 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
FK51 based 80mm f7 ED doublet，
102mm f/6.95 FK51 doublet，
6" f-6 achromat，
前两款都不错，最后一款好
::0015:: ::0015:: ::0015:: 赫赫～再权威也不如亲眼所见的权威～::luguo:: 原帖由 leexeen 于 2007-10-9 21:02 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
一起对比的还有三款昆明产的镜子：
FK51 based 80mm f7 ED doublet，
102mm f/6.95 FK51 doublet，
6" f-6 achromat，
前两款都不错，最后一款评价最高。
前面两款是否就是晶华的两款ED？ ...
80和102不是晶华的，是昆明的裕众，很快就会面世了。 强烈建议INTANE及早研制开发碳素镜筒, 和景德拼金工最多打个平手, 另辟溪径, 柳岸花明. Wolfgang Rohr 在德国论坛上对ED80的镜头的检测和评论, 比美国的评论客观, 具体, 专业, 值得INTANE好好研究一下.
http://www.astro-foren.de/showthread.php?t=8884&highlight=intane 原帖由 ASTROLAN 于 2007-12-27 01:21 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
强烈建议INTANE及早研制开发碳素镜筒, 和景德拼金工最多打个平手, 另辟溪径, 柳岸花明.
强烈反对碳素镜筒，塑料的不好！::42:: 碳纤维不是塑料, 高强度, 低密度, 用在望远镜上还有加快热平衡的优点. 但成本高, 设计加工困难, 但不知在性能上有何缺点...
题外话: A380大量采用了碳纤维复合材料. 已经入了英田80ED,在路上~ 等到了以后俺会给坛子里的同好一个客观公正的测试作业地~~~ 呵呵~
而且俺这里的浓雾到明天就会散掉~~ 嘎嘎，这是这半个月来听到的最好的消息~~~ 原帖由 成都巽风 于 2007-10-9 21:12 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
虽然我发这个帖子有偏袒英田的嫌疑，但是刚刚看了CN上的图，第一款镜子跟英田在国内卖的镜子差别也太大了吧！那个镜筒拉伸后本身都能看出光轴不正。文章里提到了英田，但是貌似跟我们目前看到的版本差别太大了点。 ...
我怀疑是老外故意把镜筒给弄弯的------------卑鄙的竞争手段！::070821_09.jpg::
支持
原帖由 intane 于 2007-10-10 18:09 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif其实单纯就镜片加工而言，国产的并不差。但是就整个镜头而言，就涉及到机械配合和光学装配了。机械加工对于我们而言一点都不困难，我们可以达到很高的精度。但是对于空气分离式的APO镜头，装配的任务非常耗时。需要把每片 ...
呵呵
冲这段话我也要买英田的
不为别的,只为是国产的,为了志气
看到太多进口的垃圾，就因为是进口的，所以即使是垃圾还是有很多人找到很多理由为其辩护
可是如果是国产的，即使很优秀还是会被找到很多这样那样的所谓缺陷大肆攻击
说个好笑的事情，以前的一个同事，他的亲戚从国外带了一个进口货给他，天天显摆那个进口货这里这么先进那里那么超前，哈哈，最后发现，ＭＡＤＥ ＩＮ ＣＨＩＮＡ，从此以后就成了垃圾，这里也垃圾，那里也垃圾．我就奇怪了，还是原来的那个东西啊． 原帖由 intane 于 2007-10-10 18:09 发表 http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/images/common/back.gif
其实单纯就镜片加工而言，国产的并不差。但是就整个镜头而言，就涉及到机械配合和光学装配了。机械加工对于我们而言一点都不困难，我们可以达到很高的精度。但是对于空气分离式的APO镜头，装配的任务非常耗时。需要把每片 ...
好
为了志气
顶
另外订购一个