这个SOHO彗星专家（KB）也太让我失望了吧！……

苍穹旋律 2013-01-10 19:47:48
你把邮件组刷屏了。。。
苍穹旋律 2013-01-10 19:48:09
等一会儿我再好好去看看，邮件太多，我都晕了
苍穹旋律 2013-01-10 19:48:34
你给KB单独发邮件了么
周波 06:30:56
徐智坚 2013-01-10 18:55:25
随你
周波 06:15:08
哎！……小徐呀！……你就给我回复了这二个字！！
周波 06:32:05
孙，你看，我又白给徐说了那么多了……55555
周波 06:32:52
苍穹旋律 2013-01-10 19:47:48
你把邮件组刷屏了。。。正常，必须，应该·！
周波 06:33:18
苍穹旋律 2013-01-10 19:48:09
等一会儿我再好好去看看，邮件太多，我都晕了
周波 06:34:06
你要知道：那些发言，让我是从天黑写到了天亮！
周波 06:34:41
我写了整整一晚上，我都没晕……
周波 06:35:18
怎么？就让你们看一下，都晕了！
周波 06:35:38
苍穹旋律 2013-01-10 19:48:34
你给KB单独发邮件了么——没有！·
周波 06:36:15
我就要看看，他以后还看看这边的报告和发言了。

周波(271105123) 17:42:59
请看： 这个SOHO彗星专家（KB）也太让我失望了吧！……
周波(271105123) 17:43:08
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-257232-1-1.html
周波(271105123) 17:44:51
徐，你就不能帮我一下……让专家把我的彗星给我！
孙霈源(705532336) 17:46:54
去SOHO那～  
星 辉(33943719) 17:47:29
呵呵，波，帮你确认的人又不是专家。
星 辉(33943719) 17:48:15
SOHO正在出图，快去呀。
周波(271105123) 17:51:51
现在，我看：他KB已经不是“专家”了……
周波(271105123) 17:52:32
KB整天是该干的不干，
周波(271105123) 17:53:12
明明错了，还不好好改正！
周波(271105123) 17:54:00
星 辉(33943719) 17:48:15
SOHO正在出图，快去呀。……？？？
周波(271105123) 17:54:46
02 010 Thu 2013/01/10 06:00 - 07:30 D34
02 010 Thu 2013/01/10 15:30 - 17:40 D27
02 010 Thu 2013/01/10 22:30 - 23:30 D27
这会，应该没图出吧！……
周波(271105123) 17:55:58
这几天，我全让专家的公告给搞的，头早就大了！
周波(271105123) 17:56:27
今天的图，不下了，下了也不看了；……
周波(271105123) 17:57:02
有没有彗星不知道；就是有彗星，我也不要了；
周波(271105123) 17:58:14
好歹总得让专家把去年应该是我的彗星给我吧！
周波(271105123) 17:58:36
周波(271105123) 17:49:43
我在Yahoo上的发言，你不可能看不明白吧！？
周波(271105123) 17:49:55
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/
周波(271105123) 17:59:39
徐，这回你要是不帮我的话，……呵呵！
周波(271105123) 18:00:50
告诉你：现在二等奖、特别奖，我已经发了；
周波(271105123) 18:01:58
除了那10几个纪念奖还没发外，就你一人的
周波(271105123) 18:02:22
目前，就你一人的一等奖没发了……
周波(271105123) 18:03:15
原因：你和我的去年12月彗星发现数还没确定
周波(271105123) 18:04:06
如果你不急，那就慢慢等专家什么时候给我认错了
周波(271105123) 18:05:03
把最终我认为正确的公告发出来后，再……
周波(271105123) 18:06:15
才能结束本次活动……若最近专家不理我，
周波(271105123) 18:06:47
那就……只能……等着吧！……嘿嘿！  
徐智坚 18:55:25
随你
周波 06:15:08
哎！……小徐呀！……你就给我回复了这二个字！！
***************************
徐，我说：你这是个什么态度！……
周波 06:16:46
按理说，专家也是想在年底前把公告准确发出来；

周波 06:18:00
但其结果……却让我们感觉“事与愿违”啊！

周波 06:18:37
可能他由于没时间去查看除报告页外的报告；

周波 06:19:20
从而才导致了公告中的一点小错误……

周波 06:20:13
专家的公告中有错，这也不奇怪……经常的；

周波 06:21:02
且专家自己也在公告中说了，让人给他发电邮说明

周波 06:22:01
这一次，一开始看到他的12月公告中，就……

周波 06:22:49
就多给了我一颗彗星——我当时认为：

周波 06:23:15
这次问题不大，会有人给专家说的，所以，

周波 06:23:42
我就不急于给专家写信了。

周波 06:25:44
但没想到的是：当你和Szymon Liwo给专家说了之后

周波 06:26:23
你们也只管自己的彗星——这其实也没错；但，

周波 06:27:11
但你们没有把相关的几颗彗星一起给专家说，

周波 06:27:54
这就是后来，为什么专家越改错越多的原因。

周波 06:28:46
好了，徐，我也不想多说什么大道理了；

周波 06:30:00
至少我认为：你还是有责任帮我要回这颗

周波 06:30:26
Dec27,12 11:13:07——C2克族彗星的吧？
……

楼主加油！！！

唉，外语不好看来真是吃亏，有些看不明白呀。

回复：星火计划
*************
哎！……别说是你看不明白了……
要知道：我本人可是不会外语的，
难道说，你们不觉得我能找这个彗星，
而且还，能发现那么多……本身就是不可能的事嘛！
再说了，近来专家的公告——一错再错！
就是让，我们这些高手也看不明白了。

。。。。。。

。。。。。。。。。。。。
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
。。。。。。。。。。。。
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
。。。。。。。。。。。。
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

波淡定淡定 KB回来肯定会马上处理好的嘛

呵呵！那我也就只能这么等着吧！……

呵呵！……终于让我等到专家发公告了——嘿嘿！……
大家，好好看看吧！……
这就是SOHO彗星方面目前唯一的专家（KB）在时隔了将近半年的时间后，
昨天，终于有空上来发公告、给我认错并道歉了——以下是他的公告全文：
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jun 04 2013 14:15:17

Hi All,

Far too long since I did any confirmations... I can only apologize! I
have been very busy with Comet PanSTARRS and ISON, the latter in
particular. Over the next couple of weeks I will be getting the
confirmations back up-to-date. I promise I am still here, and still
doing lots of behind-the-scenes Sungrazer work!

Soho#  Date/Time of Post   Discoverer    Tel    Group   Images of..
===================================================================
2424  Dec18,12 05:46am     B.Zhou         C2   Kreutz   Dec18,12
...
2438  Apr28,12 09:17:59    B.Zhou       C3,C2  NonGrp   Apr28-29,12
2439  Dec27,12 11:13:07    B.Zhou         C2   Kreutz   Dec27,12
2440  Dec26,12 23:48:59    Z.Xu         C3,C2  Kreutz   Dec27,12
--
First some corrections. There was some confusion in December that Bo
had contacted me about:
[1] I missed Bo's earlier report of #2424, and had assigned it to
Szymon. That's now corrected.
[2] SOHO-2438 was initially dismissed by me as being 3200 Phaeton.
Rainer has demonstrated conclusively that it is not, and thus I'm
reinstating it.
[3] Somehow I missed a C2 Kreutz report by Bo (#2349)
[4] I also missed a C3/C2 Kreutz from Zhijian (#2340)
The latter two comets are in addition to SOHO-2433 and 2434, with all
four of them just being a few hours apart, hence the confusion!
I think I'm happy that I have everything correct for December now,
but you are encouraged to email me if you still think there might be
a remaining problem.
Look for January confirmations tomorrow or Thursday, and February
confirmations hopefully by the end of the day on Friday. If things
get complicated again, I might post a preliminary set to the
SOHOhunter page so that you can all make comments before I post them
here.

Regards,
Karl

同时，这里还有一个相关的帖子……请看：
难得！——美国专家终于总算还是给我认错了……呵呵！
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-269609-1-1.html

天啊！……在这份公告中，初步看来好象还是有错误的呀！
就是：关于SOHO-2440……请看——又有彗星编号重复了！
*********************
2432  Dec26,12 23:48:59    Z.Xu         C3,C2  Kreutz   Dec27,12
2440  Dec26,12 23:48:59    Z.Xu         C3,C2  Kreutz   Dec27,12

另外，专家今天早上又连发了二个公告……如下：

这是第一个公告，与前一天的有关联……请看：
************************************
Jun 06 2013 18:20:15

Hi All,

One more attempt at getting these comets correct...
Soho#  Date/Time of Post   Discoverer    Tel    Group   Images of..
=======================================
2424*  Dec18,12 05:06pm           S.Liwo         C2   Kreutz   Dec18,12
2425*  Dec18,12 05:46AM           B.Zhou         C2   Kreutz   Dec18,12
--
Just so we're clear, both of these comets were first reported on
SOHOHunter, at the times stated:
SOHO-2424 (Liwo, MSG #4141)
# HEIGHT   DATE     TIME   ANGLE  TEL  FC    COL     ROW
  7.26 2012/12/18 08:24:05 144.3   C2  10   158.0    22.0
  7.15 2012/12/18 08:36:05 143.8   C2  10   159.0    33.0
  7.06 2012/12/18 08:48:06 143.5   C2  10   161.0    41.0
  6.87 2012/12/18 09:12:09 142.5   C2  10   163.0    60.0
...etc...

SOHO-2425 (Zhou, MSG #4135)
# HEIGHT   DATE     TIME   ANGLE  TEL  FC    COL     ROW
  7.42 2012/12/18 01:25:51 142.0   C2  10   130.0    26.0
  7.32 2012/12/18 01:36:24 141.7   C2  10   133.0    35.0
  7.24 2012/12/18 01:48:05 141.3   C2  10   134.0    43.0
  7.14 2012/12/18 02:00:05 140.7   C2  10   134.0    54.0
...etc...

January confirmations to follow.

Karl

第二个公告是：今年一月的SOHO彗星发现确认公告：
***************************************
Jun 06 2013 18:22:30

Here's what I have for January. I think it was a fairly uncomplicated
month for comets so I'm reasonably confident here...
--
Soho#  Date/Time of Post   Discoverer    Tel    Group   Images of..
===================================================================
2441  Jan03,13 17:39:42    M.Uchina     C3,C2   Kreutz  Jan03-04,13
2442  Jan04,13 02:02:41    Z.Xu           C3    Kreutz  Jan04,13
2443  Jan05,13 14:22:41    P.Maysonet     C3    Kreutz  Jan05-06,13
2444  Jan07,13 12:09:34    B.Zhou         C3    Kreutz  Jan07,13
2445  Jan12,13 06:42:54    Z.Xu         C3,C2   Kreutz  Jan12,13
2446  Jan12,13 15:00:11    Z.Xu           C3    Kreutz  Jan12-13,13
2447  Jan13,13 17:35:55    S.Shurpakov  C3,C2   NonGrp  Jan13-15,13  
2448  Jan28,13 11:29:26    Z.Xu         C3,C2   Kreutz  Jan28-29,13
2449  Jan28,13 21:10:33    B.Zhou         C3    Kreutz  Jan28,13
2450  Jan30,13 07:38:06    P.Sun          C2    Meyer   Jan23,13
2451  Jan31,13 20:23:20    B.Zhou         C3    Kreutz  Jan31-Feb01,13
--
Szymon had a fragment of 2446 that was confirmed, but there was a
difference of only +/- 1-pixel between them. There's no way I can
confirm a C3 fragment based on 1-pixel (and personally I could see no
indication of a fragment) so I can not confirm that report.
I'm currently taking a look at the STEREO/SECCHI comet reports for
January. It looks like Pedro has a candidate but it's not clear to me
if there are any others... (that's a hint for you to email me if you
know of any!)

Regards,
Karl

周波(271105123)  17:10:06
Jun 06 2013 18:20:15

Hi All,

One more attempt at getting these comets correct...
Soho#  Date/Time of Post   Discoverer    Tel    Group   Images of..
===========================================
2424*  Dec18,12 05:06pm           S.Liwo         C2   Kreutz   Dec18,12
2425*  Dec18,12 05:46AM           B.Zhou         C2   Kreutz   Dec18,12
--
哎！……我说：这个专家KB啊！……这又是要干什么呀！？

周波(271105123)  17:13:23
原本就是：一天出了二颗，其中一个是我的……
很简单的事——看看让KB搞了半年也没搞清楚。
周波(271105123)  17:16:14
彗星就在那里，且又是完全肯定可以确定的彗星；
只是让专家来决定谁第一个报了那一颗就行了……
周波(271105123)  17:20:33
如果说专家在发公告时，不带那么肯定的语气的话；
这些事，还好说——就是其中有错，后边一改也行。
然而，在每次公告中，让我们看到的专家说的那么
肯定……最后还是有错——不改不行——没完没了！

SOHO: 2432 = 2440 ? ...&...(2434)=2439 ?
*************************************
2432 Dec26,12 23:48:59 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2440 Dec26,12 23:48:59 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
-----------------------
2434 Dec27,12 11:13:07 B.Zhou C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2439 Dec27,12 11:13:07 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
*********************************************************************
*********************************************************************
Jun 04 2013 14:15:17

Hi All,

Far too long since I did any confirmations... I can only apologize! I
have been very busy with Comet PanSTARRS and ISON, the latter in
particular. Over the next couple of weeks I will be getting the
confirmations back up-to-date. I promise I am still here, and still
doing lots of behind-the-scenes Sungrazer work!

Soho# Date/Time of Post Discoverer Tel Group Images of..
==========================================
2424 Dec18,12 05:46am B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
...
2438 Apr28,12 09:17:59 B.Zhou C3,C2 NonGrp Apr28-29,12
2439 Dec27,12 11:13:07 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2440 Dec26,12 23:48:59 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
--
......
[3] Somehow I missed a C2 Kreutz report by Bo (#2349)
[4] I also missed a C3/C2 Kreutz from Zhijian (#2340)
The latter two comets are in addition to SOHO-2433 and 2434, with all
four of them just being a few hours apart, hence the confusion!
I think I'm happy that I have everything correct for December now,
but you are encouraged to email me if you still think there might be
a remaining problem.
*********************
http://sungrazer.nrl.navy.mil/co ... mets201306_arch.htm\
l

*********************************************************************
Jan 02 2013 18:02:51

Hi all,

Here's the rest of December's comets.
--
Soho# Date/Time of Post Discoverer Tel Group Images of..
==========================================
2424* Dec18,12 06:06am S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
2431 Dec23,12 18:00:51 M.Uchina C3,C2 Kreutz Dec23-24,12
2432 Dec26,12 23:55:40 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2433 Dec27,12 03:04:48 Z.Xu C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2434 Dec27,12 11:13:07 B.Zhou C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2435 Dec29,12 13:38:58 S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec29,12
2436 Dec29,12 15:03:05 S.Shurpakov C3,C2 NonGrp Dec29-30,12
2437 Dec30,12 22:35:42 M.Uchina C3,C2 Kreutz Dec31,12
--
Please note the correction to SOHO-2424
......
*********************************************************************

Jan 03 2013 10:02:18

Two small corrections:
Soho# Date/Time of Post Discoverer Tel Group Images of..
==========================================
2432 Dec26,12 23:48:59 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2434 Dec26,12 23:55:40 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
--
I had written the wrong post time for #2433. Also, I had missed that
Zhijian first reported SOHO-2434 in C3 -- I thought Bo's C2 report on
Dec27,12 11:13:07 was the first report of this object (they are the
same comet, without doubt)

Karl
********************
http://sungrazer.nrl.navy.mil/co ... mets201301_arch.htm\
l

SOHO: 2424/2425 --- ?
********************
Jun 06 2013 18:20:15

Hi All,

One more attempt at getting these comets correct...
Soho# Date/Time of Post Discoverer Tel Group Images of..
======================================
2424* Dec18,12 05:06pm S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
2425* Dec18,12 05:46AM B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
--
Just so we're clear, both of these comets were first reported on
SOHOHunter, at the times stated:
SOHO-2424 (Liwo, MSG #4141)
# HEIGHT DATE TIME ANGLE TEL FC COL ROW
7.26 2012/12/18 08:24:05 144.3 C2 10 158.0 22.0
7.15 2012/12/18 08:36:05 143.8 C2 10 159.0 33.0
7.06 2012/12/18 08:48:06 143.5 C2 10 161.0 41.0
6.87 2012/12/18 09:12:09 142.5 C2 10 163.0 60.0
...etc...

SOHO-2425 (Zhou, MSG #4135)
# HEIGHT DATE TIME ANGLE TEL FC COL ROW
7.42 2012/12/18 01:25:51 142.0 C2 10 130.0 26.0
7.32 2012/12/18 01:36:24 141.7 C2 10 133.0 35.0
7.24 2012/12/18 01:48:05 141.3 C2 10 134.0 43.0
7.14 2012/12/18 02:00:05 140.7 C2 10 134.0 54.0
...etc...

January confirmations to follow.

Karl
--------------
http://sungrazer.nrl.navy.mil/index.php?p=recent

******************************************************************
SOHO-C2 2012-12-18 comet-2 !!!
******************************
Potential comet:2012-12-18

Posted By: bozhou2010 bozhou2010 Send Email
Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:46 am

Potential comet:
Images: C2; 1024x1024 images.
(0,0) Upper Left.
2012-12-18
Kreutz group comet.
0348 154 879
0400 156 869
0412 158 859
0424 160 850
--Bo Zhou
------------------------------
Re: Potential comet:2012-12-18

Posted By: zhijian_xu zhijian_xu Send Email
Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:22 am

Hi all,
I can confirm this report, and the more postions:
20121218_0125_c2.gif (131,998)
20121218_0136_c2.gif (132,989)
20121218_0148_c2.gif (134,980)

*******************************
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/message/4135
=========================================
Potential comet
Posted By: szymonliwo szymonliwo Send Email
Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:06 pm |
Options Up Thread
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Unwrap Lines


Hi All,

Potential comet:
Images: C2; 1024x1024 images.
(0,0) Upper Left.
20121218 Kreutz group comet.
0800 155 1018
0812 156 1009

Regards
Szymon

---------------------------------
Re: [sohohunter] Potential comet
Posted By: komeciarz komeciarz Send Email
Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:17 pm |
Options Up Thread
View Source
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Unwrap Lines


Hi All,

I can confirm a comet reported by Szymon
additional positions: Images: 2012-12-18
(0.0) Upper-Left
160 980 (8:48)
162 962 (9:12)

Regards,
Michal

*******************
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/message/4141

============================================
============================================
Dec 19 2012 04:45:24

Known comet now entering:
Images: C2; 1024x1024 images.
(0,0) Upper Left.
2012-12-18
Kreutz group comet.
0848 162 981
0912 164 961
0924 165 952
--Bo Zhou

Dec 19 2012 04:50:10

Known comet now entering:
Images: C2; 1024x1024 images.
(0,0) Upper Left.
2012-12-18
Kreutz group comet.
0148 133 980
0200 135 970
0212 137 960
0224 139 950
0236 141 940
0248 143 930
--Bo Zhou
-----------------------
……
2424 Dec19,12 04:45:24 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
2425 Dec19,12 04:50:10 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
……
2424* Dec18,12 06:06am S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
……
************************
http://sungrazer.nrl.navy.mil/co ... mets201212_arch.htm\
\
l

Re: SOHO-C2 2012-12-18 comet-2 !!!
----------------------
2424* Dec 18, 2012 5:46 am B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
2425* Dec 18, 2012 5:06 pm S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec18,12

========================
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/message/4172

SOHO: 2424/2434 --- Bo - comet?
-------------------------------
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/message/4288
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Soho# Date/Time of Post Discoverer Tel Group Images of..
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……
2414 Dec07,12 19:19:35 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec07-08,12
……
2424* Dec18,12 5:46am B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
……
2434 Dec27,12 11:13:07 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec27,12

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Re: SOHO-C2 2012-12-18 comet-2 !!!
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/message/4172


Re: SOHO-C2 2012-12-27 comet-4 !!!
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/message/4173

2012-12: SOHO-2410#---SOHO-(2438)#
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Soho# Date/Time of Post Discoverer Tel Group Images of..
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2410 Dec02,12 01:56:32 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec02-03-12
2411 Dec03,12 12:51:46 S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec03,12
2412 Dec05,12 10:20:06 M.Uchina C2 Kreutz Dec04,12
2413 Dec05,12 11:08:54 S.Liwo C3,C2 Kreutz Dec05-06,12
2414 Dec07,12 19:19:35 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec07-08,12
2415 Dec08,12 21:59:36 Z.Xu C2 Meyer Dec08,12
2416 Dec13,12 20:57:32 M.Uchina C2 Kreutz Dec13,12
XC85 Dec14,12 17:30:05 M.Uchina C2 Kreutz Dec14,12
2417 Dec16,12 03:36:47 Z.Xu C2 Kreutz Dec16,12
2418 Dec16,12 03:36:59 M.Uchina C2 Kreutz Dec16,12
2419 Dec16,12 16:01:30 M.Uchina C2 Kreutz Dec16,12
2420 Dec16,12 16:47:37 M.Uchina C2 Kreutz Dec15-16,12
2421 Dec17,12 00:49:17 Z.Xu C2 Meyer Dec17,12
2422 Dec17,12 03:07:40 Z.Xu C2 Kreutz Dec16,12
2423 Dec17,12 05:51:33 Z.Xu C2 Kreutz Dec17,12
2424* Dec18,12 5:46 am B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
2425* Dec18,12 5:06 pm S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec18,12
2426 Dec20,12 01:16:11 Z.Xu C2 Kreutz Dec20,12
2427 Dec21,12 21:03:02 P.Sun C2 Kreutz Dec21,12
2428 Dec21,12 23:25:33 Z.Xu C2 Meyer Dec21,12
2429 Dec22,12 08:54:34 M.Uchina C3,C2 Kreutz Dec22,12
2430 Dec23,12 05:33:21 Z.Xu C2 Kreutz Dec23,12
2431 Dec23,12 18:00:51 M.Uchina C3,C2 Kreutz Dec23-24,12
2432 Dec26,12 23:55:40 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2433 Dec27,12 03:04:48 Z.Xu C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2434 Dec27,12 11:13:07 B.Zhou C2 Kreutz Dec27,12
2435 Dec29,12 13:38:58 S.Liwo C2 Kreutz Dec29,12
2436 Dec29,12 15:03:05 S.Shurpakov C3,C2 NonGrp Dec29-30,12
2437 Dec30,12 22:35:42 M.Uchina C3,C2 Kreutz Dec31,12
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(XC86)Dec02,12 12:44:33 B.Zhou C3 Kreutz Dec02,12
(2438)Dec26,12 23:48:59 Z.Xu C3,C2 Kreutz Dec27,12

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2012-12: SOHO-2410#---SOHO-(2438)#
Posted By: bozhou2010 bozhou2010 Send Email
Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:34 am
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sohohunter/message/4177