谁用过VIXEN的114ED镜，比102ED成像强还是差？

114ED焦比大的让人有点莫名的担心，但大口径确实有不小的诱惑。（不谈价钱）

我明天打電話到日本VIXEN問一下,以我們跟VIXEN的交情,他們一定會給我們良心的建議的,明天答覆你,

《S&T》有过比较和评测，总体大意是，你需要花比这多很多的钱，而不会使成像质量有较大的提高。里面有用200倍观察月亮的描述，色差不明显。

但是，焦比的区别应该还是有的，毕竟114ED为f/5.3比较短，更趋向一个摄星镜的设计。

从照片上看，35mm胶片只有角部星像有所拉长，其余还是非常不错的。

结构为前方两片（其中一片ED），后方靠近调焦器的位置，还有一片改正镜，加装减焦镜的时候要替换下来。但是，加了减焦镜（成为f/4.3?）后，有一定暗角（135格式胶片）。

遮光罩不可收缩，但可以旋下。另外，有些目镜不能聚焦，原因是focuser行程不够，需要加个伸长管。

口径比较大，重量适中，价格不贵（List price 22xx美圆？），是我选择的目标之一。

看看其照片：

                               
登录/注册后可看大图

http://brianday.best.vwh.net/starpics3.htm
http://home.tiscali.be/yuc-ldebeck/deepsky.html
http://observers.org/tac.mailing.list/1999/December/0561.html

多谢！
目前正在这两款镜之间犹豫不决，担心买回来再后悔。
还请多指点。

102ED是指ED102SS吧？我是不会考虑的，因为焦比大一点（f6.5），不能装在普通的135相机上实现裂像调焦。对于曝光时间的差异为(6.5/5.26)^2=1.5倍。另外，102ED镜筒也长一点、口径也小一点。
当然，焦比越大，在相同材料的前提下色差改正的就越好。

Vixen还有另一老款，ED102S，焦比为9，必须加Reducer才能拍摄深空，但比较适合直接拍摄大行星、太阳月亮。

更正一点：调焦筒直径比较乱，对于Vixen 114ED应该是2"的，但外罗径是2.5"的。

102ED我们有一个，一直在放着，SKYWATER用这个照过一张照片。效果很好。114的这里没有，130ED有一支，但没有拍过深空呢。主要原因是目前用200SS加改正镜，F4的光圈，而且长时间露光，效果非常好。其他的也就没有。
最好是在GOOGLE上找找这两个望远镜的色差曲线，没有的话，就要找WEIXIN拉。反正是要看数据的，一定要看实际的数据。这些数据厂家都是公开的，要是不公开，你也不要考虑拉。

Google搜不到色差曲线。输入114ED，也就出来几十条，太少。
最有可能提供曲线的是Vixen自己，但其日本网站介绍的很少。

Yahoo上反射镜的有关讨论，也许需要注册才能看（？我注册了）
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Refractors/message/3477

From:  dnovo@i...
Date:  Thu Mar 1, 2001  7:54 pm
Subject:  Re: Vixen ED114SS

I guess my question on the Vixen ED issue is what are they -- visual
or photographic instruments? It is my understanding, and perhaps
entirely wrong, that the Vixen ED line, particularly the 'faster'
models, were designed as photographic scopes. If you look at the
S&T article on the 4" models, the FL had the best visual contrast and
clarity, with the ED more 'optimized' for photographic work. Now,
the 114 is a very fast f/5.3 doublet with a third 'element' that
looks like a field flattener just ahead of the eyepiece. (I was able
to translate most of this from the Vixen catalog that Ruud was kind
enough to copy and Mark was kind enough to make available at his
site.) But the 130ED is a 'slower' scope (an f/6.6) but with the
same configuartion (i.e. a third element near the ep) so this leaves
me completley baffled -- are they photographic scopes, visual, or
what? The we through the NA series into the mix, "Neo-Achromats"
which are Petzval designs using 'simple' non-ED glass. In speaking
to one user, he said the NAs were better suited for visual and high
power work than the EDs as the had less SA and a flatter field, but
poor contrast because of poorer coatings and glass type. So, has
anyone tried the 130 ED or how about the 140NA, etc? Dave

--- In Refractors@y..., "Rich N." <rnapo@z...> wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> Sorry, I haven't looked through the Vixen 114ED since
> last Oct. The owner is a very active observer, so I
> should be able to hook up with him at a star party in
> the not too distant future. (I thought he was on this list.)
>
> His Vixen 114ED takes high power very well. My FC-100
> is more color free but I don't know if it would show more
> plantary detail than his Vixen 114ED. The false color in
> the 114ED isn't too bad. There was much less than I was
> expecting. l see if we can work out a side by side comparison.
>
> Rich
>
> >Hi Rich,
> >
> >Thanks for posting a feedback to my questions regarding
> >the f/5.3 vs f/9.
> >
> >I'm wondering if you had any chance to look again at
> >the Vixen 114ED since last Oct. If so, have you gotten
> >a chance to see Jupiter and Saturn at high magnification?
> >Does Jupiter throw much false color? Since you have a 4"
> >Tak, how does this Vixen perform compared to your Tak?
> >Can you see more details with the Vixen (due to its larger
> >4.5" aperture) than your Tak?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ron B[ee]
> >
> >--- In Refractors@y..., "Rich N." <rnapo@z...> wrote:
> >> Oct. 14, '00
> >> Montebello Open Space, near Palo Alto, Calif.
> >>
> >> Last night I had a chance to look through a Vixen 114mm f/5.3
APO.
> >> It took high power very well. It had surprisingly little
color.
> >It gave
> >> very nice images.
> >>
> >> Rich
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>The Vixen 114mm, F=600mm, f/5.3 APO refractor OTA is a special
> >order
> >> >>from Orion. The OTA is about $2300. I am seriously
considering
> >this
> >> >>telescope to go with my Vixen GP-DX mount w/Sky Sensor 2000
> >GOTO.
> >> >>Anyone heard any reviews of this telescope?
> >> >>
> >> >> Ciao....Barry
> >> >
> >> >It is fast (f/5.3) for an APO. I would question just how APO it
> >> >really is.
> >> >
> >> >Do you need such a fast refractor? Did you want it for
> >> >taking photos?
> >> >
> >> >The 102mm f/9 fluorite doublet gives very nice images.
> >> >
> >> >Rich
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> >Refractors-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Refractors-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

继续贴，里面有威信人员的评价

From:  "Ruud Schmeitz" <r.schmeitz@m...>
Date:  Thu Mar 1, 2001  8:24 pm
Subject:  Re: Vixen ED114SS


 

--- In Refractors@y..., dnovo@i... wrote:
> I guess my question on the Vixen ED issue is what are they --
> visual or photographic instruments? It is my understanding, and
> perhaps entirely wrong, that the Vixen ED line, particularly
> the 'faster' models, were designed as photographic scopes. If you
> look at the S&T article on the 4" models, the FL had the best
> visual contrast and clarity, with the ED more 'optimized' for
> photographic work. Now, the 114 is a very fast f/5.3 doublet with
> a third 'element' that looks like a field flattener just ahead of
> the eyepiece. (I was able to translate most of this from the Vixen
> catalog that Ruud was kind enough to copy and Mark was kind enough
> to make available at his site.) But the 130ED is a 'slower' scope
> (an f/6.6) but with the same configuartion (i.e. a third element
> near the ep) so this leaves me completley baffled -- are they
> photographic scopes, visual, or what? The we through the NA series
> into the mix, "Neo-Achromats" which are Petzval designs using
> 'simple' non-ED glass. In speaking to one user, he said the NAs
> were better suited for visual and high power work than the EDs as
> the had less SA and a flatter field, but poor contrast because of
> poorer coatings and glass type. So, has anyone tried the 130 ED or
> how about the 140NA, etc? Dave

Hi Dave,

In July 1999 there was a thread in the SAA-newsgroup about this
subject (Vixen ED: visual or photographic instruments). I've sent
Vixen an email and asked them for comment. They replied:

> Dear Mr. Ruud Schmeitz,
>
> Generally speaking it is true that there is a difference in optical
> design between visual scopes and photographic scopes. Because the
> former places importance on a sharpest image at the center of the
> field of view, and the latter tends to place importance on a
> distortion-free image at the edge of the field of view.
>
> We have designed our new ED114SS refractor to have great
> compatibility between visual observing and astrophotography.
> Seeing is believing!
>
> Best regards,
>
> T. Kawai, Sales Dept.
> Vixen Optical Industries Ltd.

and:

> I forgot to tell you the fact that the ED114SS had a corrector lens
> at the rear of the tube to produce a flat image.
>
> Best regards,
>
> T. Kawai / Vixen

Hth,

Ruud Schmeitz
Universiteit Maastricht

还有

From:  "Rich N." <rnapo@z...>
Date:  Sat Mar 3, 2001  4:34 am
Subject:  Re: [Refractors] Vixen ED114SS
 
>I am the proud owner of a ED114SS, which I purchased at Orion back in
>September 2000 when they first started to appear in the US. My
>enthusiasm for this scope was generated after looking through it one
>night under crappy skies in Silicon Valley. The owner was an Orion
>employee working at the (only) Orion retail outlet here in Silicon
>Valley.
>
>As to quality, my scope is almost color free. I do get a thin
>yellow/green line on the bright limb of the moon. For Jupiter, it is
>almost color free. If it does show color, it is not violet. This little
>scope takes power. I have been able to push it at times of good seeing
>to near 100x aperture (450x). Images are wide, so wide, contrasty,
>bright, and "yummy". My most favorite EP for this scope is the TV 17mmT4
>and the 31T5. One night, we have a fine planetary evening (I think Rich
>N. was there), and we were able to barlow a 4mm Radian for a stupid shot
>at Saturn.

Hi James,

Thanks for the excellent report.

I remember we were at the Montebello observing site when you
were really pushing the power and the scope was taking it.

Rich



>
>Star test, mine shows a tad of pinched optics, but the seeing that
>evening was not the greatest. There may be other factors. I haven't had
>the opportunity to really do a thorough star test.
>
>All this being said, I am not an experienced observer, having been in
>the hobby for a little over a year. The ED114SS is my first Refractor. I
>have never compared views with, say, the Neo Acromats, or the 4" Vixen
>ED or Fluorites. I do know one local observer that returned the VX140
>NA back to Orion early last year. He hated it. I think this is the one
>on the Seconds Orion Page.
>
>The VX130ED has not been a huge seller in Japan. Tenmon magazine I think
>had a review of it a few years ago. I could did it up. But it's in
>Japanese. Tenmon does incredibly thorough reviews.
>
>The Vixen ED114SS has been popular with the Orion Employees here. 5 of
>them have bought one. Of course, then get cost +20%. I paid about $2100,
>with a 10% club discount.
>
>The GP-DX mounts this scope perfectly. Rock solid. I never tried it on
>the GP. I use a SS2k PC v2.05 GOTO, which performs flawlessly. Targets
>are spot on every time.
>
>This is a fun little scope. For a traveling Astrograph is should be
>perfect. Fast, short, and little color. For Visual, it's delicious.
>
>There is a one mystery about this scope. It ships with a "Field
>Flattener" that sits between the Visual back and the focuser. Nobody
>knows what this is. It seems to increase the FOV a little bit, but Vixen
>claims that it is not a Reducer. I don't use it. You might want to
>review the Sept Talking Telescope eGroup threads for some background on
>this mystery device. I posted some issues with in focus on the 31T5. I
>don't use the Flattener.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>James Turley
>Silicon Valley

德文的网站可能有色差图，不成就请威信提供吧。

我们主要想用它来拍摄深空，如果ED114SS成像表现不错的话，我们可能会考虑。
VIXEN还有130ED？好象没听说过。

VIXEN当然有有130ED，f/6.6，重5.7kg，日元报价42万
http://www.vixen.co.jp/japanese/telesco/ed.htm

ED102SS   ED114SS 接口最大是43mm，高兴兄有可能考虑BORG的100ED吗？

张文广：有关Vixen的接口，不知道到底是怎么接的、直径多少？

按照Vixen自己的彩页介绍：
Draw tube diameter: 64mm（即2.5"）
Visual Back: 31.7mm 36.4mm 43mm

另外，《S&T》上介绍，调焦筒是2"的：
The 2-inch focuser provide smooth and precise, with no backlash but just a slight image shift when.......

130ED比较好，但不是非常好。价格也贵。
不过用其来看月亮，实在是好，比8寸的折反好的多呀。
目前是，侃不如照，照不如看，看是欣赏，只能欣赏一个呀。我推荐大家就看月亮吧，用最好的望远镜的来欣赏月亮，实在是美事。
130ED没有用来拍照，主要是威信的200SS加改正镜表现的非常好。F4呀，比什么都好。当然，我不是推荐只买这个镜子，折射镜是必要的。

114ED加了Reducer可以达到f/4.4，也很厉害了。小焦比实在是诱人，可以减少拍摄时间、提高跟踪导星的精度，曾经考虑过二手的Canon 400/2.8。

今天刚跟他们又打了电话问过，ED114的确是比ED102的质量好很多，在色差的修正上也要好，他们会提供一份光谱的图片，我得到后就传给大家看看吧。。：P

期待光谱图片，最好也有ED102的。但这个ED102是指ED102SS的吗？

其实还有最关键的指标：价格。包含f/4.4 Reducer、2" Focuser。

这２款镜子的价格呢？