台湾关于小型摇控天文台的讨论
MANDII : 2011-02-01 16:00:22
这里还有一篇小型摇控天文台啊 . Smiley
摇控的等于是在电脑上操作是吧... 那就摄影用,拍摄也是在屏幕上看，但无法亲身目视,跟玩游戏没倆样.
我觉得还是亲身目视好，拍摄只是一种记录作用，把当晚在目镜里的天体记录下来,或者把它美化.
但是,在目镜里慢慢细看,其码看个几分钟那样,那种感觉才好,真实,有现场感。
还有就是,其实为何要摇控? 近的地方走几步到搂顶不就可以使用了吗，放在远的地方也不安全,我觉得完全没必要摇控的,又贵又难保养。
sgr : 2011-02-06 00:35:37
這是小弟家門口,連樓梯都不用爬,如果只要目視,可以在幾分鐘之內架好望遠鏡,
以台灣的城市郊區來說,這裏的觀星條件也是相對良好的,有時也能看到淡淡的銀河...但即便如此,能以肉眼所見的細節相當有限!
但現時的數位攝影,小口徑折射,光害濾鏡,這幾個組合,卻有機會在城市郊區開啟天空的另一扇窗.
此外學習攝影的過程中,也能帶來另一方面的體驗及目標,並非單單只是個記錄作用.
為何要搖控?因為是人無法在裏面操作的迷你尺寸.
如果有能力,直接在高山上造個可以住人的大圓頂,不用上班,白天遊山玩水,晚上目視攝影一起來...所以回到現實吧,能在搞個迷你小圓頂,對我而言就心滿意足了!
MANDII : 2011-02-10 11:35:46
喔...没注意到你的回复,我明白你意思了。 Smiley
你是在说：第一，在我的理解里，其实你拍摄的意思指的是摄影，是“天文摄影” ！
我个人对“摄影”并没有反感的，我的意思并不是说否定了摄影，而只要目视。
其实倆姐是一体的，同样都重要，我本身从一开始也一直都在做拍摄，和目视。
不过，我想我的拍摄，还未能算得上是‘摄影’。
准确地说，我当时的意思应该是在说。。。 如果用了这个天文台天文工具，那么，就一定无法目视了，是会那样的吧？？ 我当时就是说这一点，因为只有拍摄没目视，或者只有目视没拍摄，都不是最好的。
我想每个在拍摄的人，都会先目视到一个天体，才能够把它拍摄下来吧，即便目视的时候无法看得很清楚。
天文摄影家多小也要先目视看到了天体，才能用照像机把它拍下来的。
因此，倆姐都重要。但偏偏用了这个东西，就目视被完全地给抹杀了，那是吃力不讨好的事。
第二，你说要摇控的原因并不是距离的问题，是小型而人无法在里面操作造成。
这点我倒没有想得到，你说得很好。
不过那是原因，我看的是结果，结果是无法目视，不管原因是什么。
如果这个天文台，既能目视又能拍摄，不管是大是小，是摇控不摇控，那就好！我个人觉得。 Smiley
jacksonlu: 2011-02-10 13:49:47
透過monitor live show 雖然少了點真實感，但是少了“吃力“這個後果喔！;D
最近透過10吋DOB觀看幾個平地看得到的星區，真實感是增加不少，但是搬的很吃力... Smiley
MANDII : 2011-02-10 15:08:07
吃力的问题的确是要解决，但解决的办法我个人觉得这个方案并不是最好。
像楼主那样的环境条件，本身又有倆部那么高级的望远镜拍摄系统了，完全没必要再去购买这种天文台拍摄机 。
解决问题的前题要是：得轻松地进行重复又经常性的目视和摄影，目视和拍摄，缺一不自然，不自然的事不长久。
而解决的办法，以楼主目前的情况看来，我想有很多种天文台以及非天文台的做法的。
以上只是参考而已,我只是个人觉得那部摇控机不是最好的做法,但好与不好每个人也都不同.
楼主乃吾等之楷模::070821_08.jpg::
我家要是在乡下就好了啊！
DIY精神 不死！向你学习！
US ASTRONOMY
MANDII : 02-14-2011, 10:57 PM
Today I combine my 10X50 binocula with the 6" ORION newtonian , I had long time no use my binocula .
In the past time , I enjoyed looking at stars through a binocula . So I want to keep it and continue such good visual habbit .
It is connected to the EQ3 mount , parallel to the Orion Newtonian . With the use of a T-shaped connector, It can be adjusted the angle such that it is horizontally parallel to my eyes ( pic DSC00143) when the telescope is pointed to different directions . I tested views in different direction , my head and my neck is comfortable when I am looking through the binocula .
Moreover , using binocula can help me find the stars/DSO more easily , better than a view finder . By connecting to EQ3 , I can even do some simple afocal imaging with the use of a digital camera that is holded behind the binocula eyepiece . That kind of imaging can have longer exposure with EQ3 mount .
Clear skies
2011/02/14
MANDII
Uncle Peter : Yesterday, 06:53 AM from Toronto, Ontario
Mandii, this set-up keeps getting better and better. I've always wanted to piggyback my binocs with my scope, but I never got around to it. Great Job!
jenniferchristine : Yesterday, 09:59 AM from Brisbane Qld Australia
All looking very sweet.
You have done well.
The pictures you took look a little out of focus - I expect you'll soon cure that problem.
Then you'll be taking some very good photos.
PBalu : Today, 01:12 AM from Bloomington, Indiana
Nice Work Mandii. I like that idea!!!
CLOUDY NIGHTS
mexjon : 02/14/11 10:23 AM from Jacksonville, FL- Merida Yucat...
Love it MANDII! What a great idea especially the part about being able to change the binocular's position when the scope changes angles. Great job!
MANDII : 02/16/11 08:19 PM
Thank you .
本帖最后由 mandii 于 2011-3-7 14:44 编辑
moved .
作晚天气有好转,也有个4,5成清吧,便在试用订造好的鱼骨板。
上次看土星的时间是去年三月份，用DC目镜后拍，拍到一粒不怎么清的黄豆那样。
作晚也试了2X 和3X 巴罗，3X 不够清。不知道是天空问题，还是那巴罗不行，还是什么了。
US ASTRONOMY
laney50w : Yesterday, 12:05 PM from New York
Hi Mandii,
The 1st shot is really clear! Great shot!!!
__________________
Chris
sxinias : Yesterday, 01:19 PM from Europe
Mandii,
As always, I enjoy seeing your work that you are doing with your equipment. You certainly are getting the most out of it and are an incentive for me and my efforts.
I followed your example yesterday .... nothing but coulds and rain for the past two weeks and in the offering for the next couple of weeks ..... so I'm practicing on Evia Island accross the sound from me.
Joe
________
PBalu : Yesterday, 10:24 PM from Bloomington, Indiana
Mandii, nice work. I really like the first Saturn short, really sharp. Keep it up.
MANDII : Today, 12:08 AM
Thanks all of you .
Tonight I try again 3X barlow , better than last night .
CLOUDY NIGHTS
mexjon : 02/24/11 01:48 AM from Jacksonville, FL- Merida Yucat...
What camera are you shooting with, and are you stacking images, or is this a snapshot, one exposure pic? Your first image is better than any snapshot (afocal connected to Celestron 8-24mm zoom) that I've taken of Saturn so far.
I would imagine that you are not using a Neximage or similar video camera, right? Most of mine have been with a Nikon DSLR and a Canon Powershot IS. Did you use a filter in these shots?
I like how you keep at it, and thanks for posting your progress.
--------------------
John, the gringo Mexican
MANDII : 02/24/11 04:08 AM
Well John , thank you .
Camera is the DSI-I , the color model .
First picture is used together with a 2X barlow .
As you know , the Meade DSI is a kind of CCD imager(by photo basis ) , not a kind of video device .
It takes many pictures( flames) and I stacked and handle all of them in software REGISTAX 5.0 .
As you can see the equipment description in the 1st Saturn photo , exposure timming control is set at 0.077s for each photo , total 253 photos is got and stacked . I didn't use a filter . But this time the Mask is very helpful in focusing .
Last night as I tried the stars , by using the Mask , I can easily see the difference when I turns the focus . And a bright star become Sparkle as I look at the image when it's focused well . For territorial or planets , this Mask can be used in the similar way .
mexjon : 02/24/11 05:49 AM from Jacksonville, FL- Merida Yucat...
I think I'll get one of those masks. The hardest thing, I think, for most folks is getting that fine focus. Thanks for your reply.
rdl800 : 02/24/11 06:28 AM from Connecticut
Nice setup! ..thanks for posting..
One of the things I thought of when I looked at your pictures are the times I've had under the stars in different parts of the world. I often think that no matter what country or how far one travels, the stars can always be counted on to remain the same... except south of the equator!
本帖最后由 mandii 于 2011-3-1 22:54 编辑
初试牛反拍鸟器材使用感受:
上星期日,用牛反拍鸟真辛劳。以下750mm镜子的照片的视场只有半度那样，不是正像或者像折射镜那种正倒像，加上用的是赤道仪而非经尉仪(因要顾全拍星之用),这样一来,别说拍下连找都不好找，是转左还是右呢，而且动作都要非常快。
不过，好刺激的。
MANDII
2011/03/01
Cloudy NIGHTS
mexjon : 03/01/11 02:46 PM from Florida - Yucatan, Mexico
Heyagain. I like your shots. It's fun doing other telescope pics besidesjust astro. Hope you don't mind, but I did a little "post processing"on your images. PM your e-mail address and I'll send them to you. Idon't want to post them all here, but I'll put one up that I've done.
Compare them and let me know if they are to your liking.
MANDII : 03/01/11 10:33 PM
well john ! of course I don't mind .
Pls let me see it , I sent you a PM .
台湾:
蕭同學_C8_LXD75 : 今天 02:28:36
不好意思, 在下的經驗感覺, 用天文望遠鏡拍地面景物,
對比 contrast 都不怎麼好, 不知是什麼原因?
不知前輩是否有解答? 謝謝 !
MANDII: 今天 12:12:40
不敢当前辈啦,照片也不是很漂亮。 Smiley
你提到的對比(contrast)的问题，我觉得这是照片素质上的一个问题。
素质包括 對比，明暗度，画面有没有发虚，色彩是否丰富，等等因素，整体来说，就是感觉好不好看了。
而我认为,照片素质，与采用的照像机的品质，和图像处理方面有关，多于望远镜。
那也不是说望远镜完全没关系，但相对地影响要小。
当然要看个别情况，我指的是在我上面拍出来的照片而言。
照像机的品质，这个好与不好，因人因情况需要而异。
图像处理，我感觉每次要叠加越多越好看，越多就会出越多细节。
我不太会说理论上（signal/noise raito)的是怎么样，小看书,反正我每次处理都是那样感觉。
景物图因为构图复杂，变化大，叠加得够不够精确是重点所在，每张图叠加的方法都不一样。
它不像天文照那样是有规则的图（比如按星点来叠加就可以了）。
不过这些鸟都是单张的 ,没法叠加，1秒不到的时间就要拍下，因为它是在动的，不像天体那样是不动，或者有规则地动，它是不规则地动，因此无法多张叠加。加了效果也不怎么样，因此这些照片我今回也没处理就放上来了。
本帖最后由 mandii 于 2011-3-9 12:42 编辑
deleted
本帖最后由 mandii 于 2011-3-16 09:57 编辑
moved
US ASTRONOMY
Uncle Peter : Today, 04:50 AM from Toronto, Ontario
Great pics of Saturn Mandii.
Do you have a low-quality 3x barlow? I have a low quality 3x Barlow that can't focus properly, even when I'm looking at the moon.
MANDII : Today, 10:36 AM
Thanks Uncle Peter .
I cannot sure what the problem is caused by actually , because there is two MAIN factors affacting this blurring .
Firstly , May be the telescope has reached it's maximun magnification( 6"/F5 scope has maximun mag.=150mm X 1.5 = 225X, If I am using a DSI camera , currently the mag. using 3X barlow I estimated is around 750mm/7mm*3=321X ) , so it's already reach the maximun allowance of the scope , or it's very near to the maximun .
2ndly , the 3X barlow is no good quality . The other reasons , for example , my focusing , sky condition , and image post proccess , should not be accounted too much for this problem . Because basicly I am doing the same way as the 2X barlow did . So why the 3X image is much worser when it's replacing the 2X barlow under a very similar condition ? It's obviously the reason of telescope or barlow itself .
If I want to find it out , I need to test by another BIGGER scope , or another 3X barlow with better quality . But so far I don't want to input some money for this kind of testing . Because it's not worth to do so . Actually the 2X magnification is enough for me . The main reason is , even it's magnified , let say 3X or 5X or even more , the picture is just looks bigger . Even it can be revealled some details of the planets , but the detail is always same everytime . Means today you take this picture , tommorrow you will take the same picture , everytime is just same basicly . And also , you can only have two targets ( Jupitor / Saturn ) for this kind of planet imaging . In summary speaking , the input cost is much . But the final rewards is not so big . Let say If such investment can help in DSO imaging , that would be totally different . There is so many targets , everytime you can take different image of different DSO objects . That will have much much rewards for the changes . But the fact is that : getting bigger magnification , getting much worser DSO pictures as they are dim objects .
roverich : Today, 10:45 AM from virginia .usa
Your pics have come a long way Mandii ...Congrats Buddy .... I like the secondary binocular mount ..Great idea , Thank you for sharing with us ..
台湾
蕭同學_C8_LXD75 : 今天 01:29:53
歐, 抱歉, 原來是晚上拍的, 這樣應該非常厲害了!
大概是利用月光當照明的吧?
在下用 Photoshop 處理一下, 或許更好看一些?
MANDII : 今天 11:26:14
这个不用靠月光或灯光的,DSI相机足够应付很暗的景物,你想想那么远那么暗的深空天体它都能用,怎么不能用在夜间景物是不是?夜间景物相对地要光多了，这也是我一年前想到用它来拍夜景的念头由来，因为毕竟晚上才能最经常性地用望远镜拍拍小东西，打发一下时间。我目前是怎么拍这些景物的呢？这跟我最近在牛反上背负了一个10X50双筒很有关系，比以前没有双筒时要方便快捷找到想拍的目标好多。首先我用双筒广泛地浏览山野，我坐在那里慢慢看有半个小时那样吧，看看有什么东西可以作为拍摄素材，晚上树木在双筒里真的很漂亮呀！！虽然都是黑黑暗暗的，但也不至于完全看不到，而且越看就会越清楚，慢慢的。我真的很喜欢这个双筒，它对我来说是最简单但又最实用不过的一种开矿眼界的工具！然后呢，当我选定了目标后，它的视场比较大，有6度那样，我就要子细看细节，我就把赤道仪琐定后往前走到牛反前头那里，坐下来慢慢看细节，也要个半个多小时那样，目镜视场1度那样吧。而在牛反里1度范围的细节出来了，比如一棵树的小树枝上的某个部位，双筒看的是整棵树和山野的一部份。黑夜里的牛反镜物，要是慢慢看也能看到细节，隐隐约约那样，因为它口径要比双筒大，看细节还是能看到一点一滴的！这点我非常的欣赏牛反的！正因为我用了比较了双筒后，使用我更加体会到牛反的作用！更加珍惜这个牛反！更加体会到什么叫作天文望远镜。我觉得倆个合倂，一个看大方面的，一个看小细节的，配合得非常满意！真的，我觉得现在这样才是我真正想要的效果。最后呢，找是找到目标了，也把目标移到目镜中间了，也看到了大概的细节了，黑黑暗暗的，那还能干什么？那当然很自然地你便会想到把它拍下记录下来，而且用了相机，它更加能放大细节的清晰度！最小要比你眼睛目镜里看要扩大十倍！这点你真的不得不佩服一部相机的作用呀！！！
至于关于拍摄具体技术方面，其实我也没什么技术的,我对焦是用鱼骨板，我就把DSI相机放上去，再对焦微调位置等等，拍个几十张，然后在 REGISTAX 或者IRIS里叠加成一张，复杂难叠加的我就在IRIS里加，因为IRIS一般要加得比较精确，而且控制度比较大，简单的构图就在REGISTAX 里搞定。做成合拼的单张照片后，之后的事就简单了，就是主要针对在单张照片上调调这个调调那个，进量试下用软件上的各式各样的功能,把它搞好看一点，过得了自己眼光就要马上交功课了，因为到那个时候一般都比较晚也没什么精力了,还得赶时间上网发报作品都来不及，生怕第二天过了手气那样，哈哈！
最后你那个图我想会不会用力过大，是不是在调wavelet时太用力了，你看到有些格仔吗？图不够顺滑吗,好像有点发虚,看到吗？调光暗是光了，调对比也好多了，但是有一点就是因为是晚间的景物，增加光度和对比同时，又要保持晚上的那种暗度以及Hexie度,气氛等等,不能太强烈。其实我也一直在想把它对比增强什么的，但每次都是太光或者太那个了,总是过不了自己感觉。
::42::楼主发烧几度啊？啥时候我也发烧发烧::42::
本帖最后由 mandii 于 2011-3-29 12:34 编辑
《中国牧夫主要发表文章导引》
器材篇
1. 自制家用天文台 --- MANDII ( HONG KONG )
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-123895-1-1.html
2. 人肉GOTO坐标法找星 和 其它技术开创
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-135169-1-1.html
3.508mm 镜片/F4 大牛 配EQ3赤道仪 摄星计划 正式启动 !!!
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-152658-1-1.html
4.如何做个云量监察系统 ？？
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-127534-1-1.html
5.倆支牛反合拼用
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-141660-1-1.html
6.10X50双筒拍深空天体的星区
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-124361-1-1.html
7.国际天文QQ群组（即时聊天平台）
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-131294-1-1.html
8.机械赤道仪人肉GOTO坐标法寻星
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-124828-1-1.html
观察拍摄篇 ( 不定期持续更新观察照片和记录报告。2009年12月起,预定二十年不变 )
天文观察雜记
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-136266-1-1.html
月面欣赏和觀察
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-136124-1-1.html
天望坐标式追踪,观察山上的 [果实,鸟巢 ,密蜂巢和奇花异草]
http://www.astronomy.com.cn/bbs/thread-136255-1-1.html
MANDII / 林月笙( HONG KONG)
建档: 公元2009年11月17日
关档: 2011年03月29日
服，牛人................
有钱淫啊~~~半山别墅区！
钱啊!!啊!!有钱就是好！