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人肉GOTO坐标法找星 和 其它技术开创

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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2010-12-6 22:24 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 电讯盈科有限公司
《 漂移测试五 》

今晚我想试一下星空旅者兄说的PHD做法。
停止电跟便看到星点右到左斜下,我就按他说的把DSI转一下,便看到星点平移,右到左。
我用了DSI一年了都没发现原来转动DSI也能转动画面!!呵呵。因为我以为和目镜一样牛反没法转影像的。
那就是右边为东,左边为西,上面是南,下面是北。
然后把星点移到中间,就那样看它有没有动。
我没有调赤道仪,因为那不是天顶星。我今晚只是先看看怎么用那PHD而已。
一边看表,过了3分钟看到图PHD_3min , 南移了!
再到了5分钟,南和西都有!

我初步明白怎么用了,感觉不错,明晚我就用它试漂移 ,谢谢星空旅者兄!  Grin
PHD.JPG
PHD_3min.JPG
PHD_5min.JPG
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2010-12-8 00:51 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 电讯盈科有限公司
《 漂移测试六 》
今晚做完漂移后,拍了一张6分钟的星点,和单张3分钟的M42。
M42再高时间就会暴满,因为今晚天太亮了,有点白蒙蒙。
6min.JPG
M42_3min.JPG
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2010-12-8 10:57 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 Hknet公司
作晚的M42还是有点偏西,我调了平衡好久,是找到了规律,但人手调节的精度始终无法去到那么细的层面。
我是在单片6分终的时间里调节的,非常的敏感 !只是一点点的调节便有很大区别,我是凭感觉调节有丝毫的微动便停下的。我想下一步要更好只能靠电子了,靠导星才能控制到以像素为计算单位的如此细的层面。

对极跟踪的问题,经过一个多月的测试,我想现在是时候来个总结了。
这事情该再进一步做下去,还是该结束,便得根据原先所定下的测试目标决定。

以下是开头10月28和11月1日我定下的目标,我想现在已经做到了,因此可以完满结束此事情。
我按目前的实际情况,总结那倆个目标。



2010-10-28 16:31:25
这里也顺便和大家分享一下,我的长远计划是这样的。
先拿到这倆分钟,注意这倆分钟指的是单片的倆分钟,总暴光时间我反而不胆心,因为那是软件后期处理能帮补的事。这倆分钟是关健所在,以前用”主镜对极法“能拿下来,现在没有理由拿不下。
拿到后呢,就把所有倆分钟以内能搞得定的深空先拿到手,经证实,M57可以,M13可以,M42也可以,那和他们差不多的,这里还会有一定的数量。再下一步就怎么呢,提高到3分钟,4分钟或者更高,使用的会是漂移法,反正一彻能提高目前器材的单片跟踪的方法,都会是考虑范围。那就可以再进一步扩大深空天体的数目了。只要能拿到10个20个,都够玩有余的了,不要忘记这10个20个,还可以不同时间重复的拍的呢。不是好多人都在拍同样以前拍过的吗,重复拍每次可都不一样。想想单单这里,都够你玩多久了。

因此,我是铁心要把那倆分钟拿下来的了,否则就别玩深空了。
   
以前是能拿到倆分钟,但那只是局部位置的倆分钟,现在是有理由比较全面地拿到倆分钟,但理由并不是用‘主镜对极’,而是用漂移。这一次已顺便提高到3分钟了,或者是3分多4分钟那样,往后要做的就是重点在于要拍更多的天体了。
   


2010-11-01 12:17:32
1. 终极目的是: 不管用什么样的方法,最后在天文台里,进行同样的星点测试(和29号晚的星点测试比较)和比较时,2分钟的星点要比它好才为之测试合格,任务完成。否则,测试继续进行。

以作晚的3分钟M42和6分钟星点的结果来看,最后在天文台里,3分钟是要比29号为好,测试合格,任务完成,并不需要继续测试。



这里我非常感谢各位在这一个多月以来的一些意见和探讨,也欢迎朋友们观看此贴的内容,
有的地方(如极轴对极,极望怎么用)我是和大家说过要试的,
最后也真的没去做,不管原因是什么,那也算是我说了做不到的一个事实,本人对此说声抱歉。
谢 谢 大 家 ! ! !



MANDII
2010/12/08
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wormonet 发表于 2010-12-8 13:44 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–上海–上海–浦东新区 电信
不错,不错,起码自己也通过实践学到了很多东西,支持一下
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2010-12-9 14:14 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 Hknet公司
M42 on 2010/12/08 ,EQ3盲跟36分钟 。
M42.jpg
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2010-12-10 20:34 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 电讯盈科有限公司
《以下总结整个现有器材的深空拍摄步骤》


前题:

目的:
以拍照作天文深空观察的手段,作记录。此谓深空观察记录,而并非深空摄影。
      好比日常生活中用手机拍拍写照,用写照来记录生活,而并非专业摄影的意思。
      在照片上能看到一般的深空天体(DSO)。不能太讲究照片的质量和美感。
      分倆类DSO,一类是在现有4“600mm牛反望远镜,当晚天空情况,K25mm目镜里能看到。
      一类是K25mm目镜里看不到,但有可能在现有4“牛反望远镜,当晚天空情况,DSI-I拍得到的。

天空情况:一般般暗的半城市半交区的天空,透明度不怎么高,烟霞云量比较谱篇。

拍摄器材成本:哈哈!
-日本MIZAR 4”600mm 牛反,二手,400港币。
- 智通EQ3-II赤道仪带单跟,二手,300港币。
- K25mm 目镜,不用钱。
- Meade DSI-I 彩版。二手,800港币。
- 电脑,不用钱,本身有。

总成本:1500港币。


拍摄时间:三个小时,三个小时内要完成整个拍摄,一般由晚上9点到12点。



具体步骤:
1.查星图,人肉GOTO初始化设定,启程(直接指向该DSO)。

2.插入目镜看能否看到该DSO,能看到便可安心慢慢拍照,跳过第3和4步,直接进入第5步,不急,
  此时对焦好不好也不重要,因为肯定是能拍到!而对焦只会影响最终照片毛湖一点就是,没什么大不了的,
  目前来说。但是如果看不到怎么办??我估计百份之80以上的情况都会是看不到,那便得先做第3和4步 !

3.试暴10秒,星点是能看到的,从星点走动情况分辩屏幕上的东南西北方,调节DSI位置角度使屏幕能清楚
  识别星移方向(东西在横,南北在竖)。这是每个拍一个对象都要做的,
  因为每拍一个天体都要插上DSI,那位置都改了。
  知道位置有啥好处??好处是便能按星图,在屏障上根据方向来找该天体!因为人肉GOTO有可能还不够准确到位的。
  因此还得需要微调, 边看星图,边看屏障微调天体位置,也是要花上时间的,我估计最小也要半个小时,
  不顺利的还得一个多小时都很正常的。 另外,就是方便接下来的第4步,能比较容易看拉线情况。
  
  好了,直到目前你还是没看到有该DSO的,你只是用几秒时间,看星点来推测位置而已。
  实际上你那几秒钟根本不可能看到该暗DSO的,M42那些明亮的就例外。
  那便得要在第4步里看能否看到了。

4.试暴3分钟,假如看不到便得回第三步重复地推测位置。
  假如试了多次,在推测位置是准确的情况下,都无法在屏幕上看到,那就要结束拍摄了。
  因为那结论指的是:目前的望远镜和DSI,在我当晚的天空下,是无法拍到该DSO,更不用对焦了。


5.重复暴光三分钟,看星点如何,此时该DSO会跟星点一起出现屏幕上,
  重复根据每次影像结果,作平衡微调,直到星点比较圆。
  虽然极轴是之前用漂移对好了,但每次每个位置还是要再微调东西平衡的,这也是相对时间而论。
  以我的设备为例,600mm到了3分钟就很明显的!2分钟以下的还可以马马虎虎应付。
  特别是镜子平衡影响最大,每个指向位置都会改变平衡情况,而会反映在星点东西移上。
  这步骤是最花时间的,每调小许,便要花上3分钟!调5,6次,都要花上我最小半小时了,
  而且非常的敏感!以之前的经验,一般上我都要做上一个小时就差不多了,如果顺利的话。

6.好不容易地做完第5步后,此时星点是够圆了。
  此时是能在屏幕上看到该DSO的,那如果要求高点的,还有精力的,那还可以细调对焦方面,
  使影像更清晰,但我估计,到了那个时候,都已经根皮力进。

7.以2,3分钟,不停地让电脑自动收集光子,此时自已可以休息了。  
   
因为一晚只能2,3个小时花在拍摄上,有的地方没法做得很理想。


MANDII
2010/12/10

   
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2010-12-30 10:45 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 Hknet公司
公元2010年12月26日晚,使用人肉GOTO(人肉时角GOTO),
按照12月10日上面贴上写的整体深空拍摄步骤,
一晚三小时内(9:00-12:00)拍到4个深空,首次明确地实践成功.
要那个直接用时角指那个,轻松快捷,
其关健在于对极准确,而对极使用的是PC屏幕星点漂移校正法.
还有就是天空够清.



MANDII
2010/12/30
ngc457_177.jpg
ngc663_190.jpg
m103_542.jpg
m31_396.jpg
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诗人老三 发表于 2011-2-7 22:01 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–浙江–嘉兴 电信
天呐!!真是个好楼主
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2011-2-10 17:16 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 Hknet公司
-------
谢谢 !
-------
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2011-7-22 14:04 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 Hknet公司
本帖最后由 mandii 于 2011-7-22 14:05 编辑

外国论坛 CLOUDY NIGHTS / US ASTRONOMY


The maunal Goto methodology using object's TIME-ANGLE to find a deep sky object and take a picture of it .

Objective :
- It'a a fixed point observation ( visual and photography in a observatory )
With a low costing mount (EQ3) that do not have the GOTO function ,
- Manually search the deep sky objects in telescope , by using the object's time-angle at the time of observation ,
and turns the RA and DEC circle from the mount , to find out the objects in an eyepiece ,
- And take a picture of the object , note it down in a observation report .



Night Sky condition : In bewteen Urban and village place , not so many clear nights (without the clouds ) in a year , visual magnitude around 4.0-5.0 in clear nights .

Equipment cost : Telescope : Orion 6"/F5 Newtonian ( 2nd hand at price 1500HKD) that comes with several eyepices
Mount : EQ3 with one RA motor .( 2nd hand at price 300 HKD)
The height adjustable Pier ( self made at price 350 HKD)
Camera : DSI-I ( 2nd hand at price 800 HKD)

Total : 2950 HKD


Observing time : most of the time the obeservation taken place from 9:00p.m - 12:00p.m 3 hours of time ,
Within 3 hours time ,need to complete the whole observation in finding the objects and taking down it's image .



Steps :

0. The mount( EQ3) is Polar aligned well . This can be setup One time in ordinary day instead of observing night .
The alignment accuracy and requirement should be reached to the level that , the stars roundness under 2 min exposure in a single frame image , is accepted by your own . The better the mount is aligned , the better( more round ) the stars in a picture , and the more accuracy in finding out the objects by using it's time-angle value . In my case , I had to use drifting method since the polar star cannot be seen inside the obervatory polar scope .



1. At observing night , initialize the mount's RA calibration such that it can synchronise the stars moving position . Meanning that when you rotate the mount's RA axis to a certain value of a Time angle , the telescope should be pointed to the object that is located at the same time angle . Stars or DSO moving from east to west starting at time angle RA 18h00m00s up to 6h00m00s . 18 hour at eastern ground , 19 hour ...24 hour( at the top of the sky ) , 1 hour ,2 hour and so on ... upto 6 hour it reach the western ground . So totally 12 hours of time it moves the whole night sky . The DEC value of the object should be always fixed in reagrdness to differnt observing time . And the object can be seen in a eyepiece directly under the FOV of around 2 degree in an eyepiece . The minumin unit of the mount in RA circle is 10min , DEC circle is 2 degree . Thus , the FOV in an eyepeice should be setup samly to the FOV of the minimun unit( 10min and 2 degree).


The initialize process is :
a. check the target DSO object is located at the eastern or western sky hemisphere at the time of observation .
This can be easily known from the star chat in a computer .

b. If the target object is located at the Eastern hemisphere , point the telescope to the East horizontal level( approximate is OK ) , and then turns the RA circle to value 18h00m00s . After that , find a bright star in eastern sky , and point the telescope to it such that it is located in centre of an eyepice , then check it's time angle( e.g 21h10m00s) from the star chat at that moment of time . And turns the RA circle to it's time angle(21h10m00s) accordingly . After this step ,the bright star should be setup it's time angle in a mount . The RA axis becomes life . It looks like a real clock of the star moving time . Let say after 1 hour of time , even the motor of the mount is not switched on , even the star moves to a certain position of a new time angle , you just check the new time angle of the bright star from the star chat , and you can turns to the new value of RA circle to point directly to this bright star . The DEC value is just fixed no matter the star moves . Such DEC value of a star can also be known from the star chat . So we can point directly to a star by turning these two value of RA( time angle) and DEC of a star . The westren hemisphere initialization is same , but just at first point the telescope to the westren horizontal level first . And set a bright star at western side instead of eastern side . The other procedures are just same .





2. After the mount is initialized as a real clock of actual stars .
We can use the mount to find any of the objects now .
Each object should have a time angle and DEC value at the time of observing .
The bright stars do have , the DSO also have this two values .
Even the planets , and the moon is also have this two values .
Let say in more simpily , I just turn the time angle and DEC value of the mount , after that the moon can be seen in a eyepeice directly . I don't need to find it manually in a telescope . Samely , the Jupiter , the Mars and the DSO is found in same way .
These two values of time angle and DEC , can be known from the star chat in a computer , for any of astronomical objects .
What we need to do first , is just to initialize the mount to a real CLOCK of star moving .





3. After the object is seen in an eyepiece , I just insert the DSI to the eyepice holder , and starts the imaging process .
Most of the time I use less than 2 min of single frame exposure . And takes around 10 to 20 frames to do stacking and post imaging process . Finally , the DSO picture is got .


THE ABOVE IS SO CALLED " MANUAL GOTO/MANUALLY FIND A STAR BY USING IT"S TIME ANGLE "



All the previous pictures that was taken by me in past times , use this manual star searching method .



MANDII
2011/07/22
林月笙
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人皆寻萝 萝里迥转吉凶 片刻春风得意 未知景物朦胧 人生如萝 萝里不分西东 寻乐不甚苦困 未识苦与乐同 他朝醒觉梧桐  是否夸凤成龙
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2011-7-25 09:44 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 Hknet公司
CLOUDY NIGHTS


LoveChina61 : 07/22/11 06:50 AM from USA
Great job of taking some nice pictures with reasonably priced equipment! Keep up the good work. You are an encouragement to us all



Starman27 : 07/22/11 11:14 AM from Illinois, Iowa

Good images. Great classic approach.
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 楼主| mandii 发表于 2011-7-25 17:39 | 显示全部楼层 来自: 中国–香港 Hknet公司
Cloudy Nights/ US ASTRONOMY  

I need to revise some of the point in the above .
Firstly , In case it's used in western hemisphere , the RA circle is initially set to 6 hour compared to the 18 hour Eastern case . And also, this kind of initial setup to synchronise the time of the moving star , is a one time setup that can be used throughout the continuous several nights . No need to do the same setup evry night . Because stars position at same timming in two continues night , is bascily same under the FOV of the telescope in 2 degree .  

2ndly , The stars and DSO is fixed the DEC value all the time . The Moon and planets changes this DEC value as the observing time varies . Basicly this mimute and next minute , is differently and obviously seen under a big magnification in the telescope .
Visual position( time angle and DEC ) always changes with time tremendously ,under magnification .   
The Sun may also changes DEC value . I am not sure about the Sun as I haven't observed it previously .
However , even they change DEC , it can be easily got this value from the star chat , in any of the observing time .  

If you turns the mount's two axis( Time angle and DEC ) , to point the telescope to the SUN and take a picture of it in camera .
Such approch do not need to use your naked eye to find a SUN in a telescope , and even throughout the whole imaging procedure .
Meaning that : Avoid the risk of our naked eye to be hurted by the SUN , by using this a cheap and practical way of so called "Human  GOTO" methodology .
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